Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks for posting.

I'll give responses to things that I have personal experience with, and maybe they will help in some way.

"Living the gay lifestyle" - I can relate to the feeling of not knowing what it means to be gay in your everyday life, especially when just starting to explore even the notion of being gay. Being gay doesn't come with the same kind of manual that being straight does - in so much that we've grown up with straight people all around us who've provided examples of how to live. You seem to understand that. I'm a few years into being out, and I'm finding that my idea of living a gay lifestyle is much different than, say, the people you see on TV. The more I've exposed myself to new ideas, and tried them on for size, the more I've been able to eliminate the things that don't work, and I feel I'm getting closer to what will eventually fit for me.

"As for rejection..." - Here you mention being able to avoid conversations and questions that relate to your love life. If you've always dodged these pretty well, I'd say it's no wonder you're still uncomfortable talking about it. If you wish to break any kind of discomfort barrier, you need to start somewhere - looks like you came to EC - which is a great start. Reading further, your sister will probably be an important person for you to confide in. She sounds like someone that would support you unconditionally, which is the type of person you'd want in your corner for anything, really!

Parents - My parents were simply uneducated on the subject. So when I came out to them, they needed time (months) to ask questions, gather info, and just plain get used to the idea that I wouldn't turn out to be what they had always thought I'd be. I remember one particular conversation where they and I both admitted to feeling like we'd been gypped, and that we needed to re-asses our lives because the original plan didn't fit anymore.

I was most comfortable with coming to terms (for the most part) with my sexuality myself before I told anyone else. That involved mostly introspection and admitting to myself my true feelings on anything I was uneasy with. I found it difficult, and I knew it would be, but I also knew that it was the only way I could live honestly without continuing to kid myself.

As for now, I think you're doing a lot for yourself by reading and posting on EC. Continue to ask questions and continue to read what others have to say about the things you're concerned about.

 

First off, welcome to EC! Tons to cover, so lemme just jump in with both feet.

>>>However, I will say that I prayed all throughout my teens to be normal, to no avail.

Actually, those prayers WERE answered. It's just that, for you, gay IS normal. This will probably take some time to come to grips with, but let me drop the bombshell on you now - being gay isn't a curse. In fact, many of us view it as a blessing.

>>>I don't think I could really say that my Church or my Christian faith are really at odds to me accepting that I am gay.

This may be true from a holistic point of view. But my mother is Episcopalian, and my father is Roman Catholic. And they've been nothing but loving and supportive. My mother, in fact, is on a board at her church dealing with diversity, with a heavy emphasis on non-straight and transsexuals. So don't feel that all Episcopalians, or even all Episcopalian churches will immediately turn their back on you.

>>>I have never -ever- said that to anyone, that I am gay, in real life or online. But I think/hope that I am coming to terms with it. I don't have a problem with others being gay, I just can't seem to accept that I am.

Not surprising, given the circumstances. You've spent the last decade-plus either denying it or not coming to grips with it. But it sounds like you're taking the first steps forward towards doing so. My generic advice to people in your shoes is - try it on. You don't have to change anything outward. But look in the mirror each morning, and say "I'm gay". Feel free to think "gay thoughts" (whatever you take that to mean). Feel free to look at guys. When you fantasize about guys, don't tiptoe into the fantasy. REALLY get into it. Imagine the guy with you, and you doing anything to him (or him doing anything to you) that you desire. And not in a "well, maybe it might be nice if..." No - go absolutely apeshit. Throw him down on the living room floor, tear his clothes off, grab the whipped cream, and go to town. And that holds true if you look at porn, too. Don't look at it with your hands half-covering your eyes. Drink it in. Look at those guys, look at what they're doing, picture yourself in the scene, and again, go nuts. And when you're done, with your hand and crotch all sticky, don't immediately go into embarrassed mode. Sit there (or lie there) and enjoy the afterglow. Don't think "I can't believe I thought about that" - think "that was amazingly hot". Because solo sex is still sex, and sex is supposed to be fun, damnit.

The point is to stop thinking of your sexuality as somehow "off". It isn't. It's part of you, same as it is to all of us, so enjoy it.

>>>Moreover, I just can't see myself living the gay lifestyle (whatever that is...)

You know that stuff you do now? Going to work, hanging out with your friends? That's the gay lifestyle. Because, see, you're gay. And therefore anything and everything you do automatically becomes the gay lifestyle. It's easy to get caught up in thinking that going to clubs, and hooking up randomly, and recreational drugs are part and parcel of this supposed "gay lifestyle". But they're no more the gay lifestyle than NASCAR races and/or swingers clubs are the straight lifestyle. Yes, there are straight people that do that. But that doesn't mean they all do it, or even most do it.

>>>I guess I always saw my adult self as married with two kids, driving a mini-van to my interesting office job. I just can't seem to come to terms with the fact that that isn't in the cards for me.

There's no reason that that can't be in the cards. You can still go to work, do a great job, maybe stop off for drinks with some friends afterwards, then go home to your picket-fence house, kids and spouse. The only difference is your wife is gonna have a penis. Seriously. That's it.

It's good that you think your family will at least not antagonistic. And why does your sister suspect? Well, how's your dating life? Quite often, in people your age, the biggest sign isn't "he's crazy about fashion" or "he talks with a lisp". It's "he doesn't seem interested in the opposite sex". Which stands to reason. That's not a hint - it's pretty much the dictionary definition.

>>>I guess, I would be the only member of my extended family who is gay. Simply the first one in our family who'd come out. (Heck, divorce hasn't even happened in my family yet.) And that scares me.

To the best of my knowledge, I'm the only gay one in my family. And considering that my father is one of nine children, and all of THEM had tons of kids...well, that's saying something. But despite the fact that they mostly live in rural Wisconsin, it really hasn't been an issue. I recently went back there for a bit of a family reunion, and they all knew. My partner didn't go with me (he was stuck at work), but they all asked after him. If anything, a couple of them find it somewhat neat to have "a gay in the family".

>>>I feel that I would really like to have a long-term monogamous gay relationship in future, but I don't know how to accomplish that alone. And I am not sure if I am mentally ready to meet people before I come out. Yet at the same time, I know I would feel much more comfortable coming out, if I had someone. Anyone.

It IS a Catch 22. You feel having a guy would make it easier to come out...but it's a lot harder to find a guy if you're not out. My basic advice here is to keep working on yourself first. The more comfortable you get with the idea, the easier it's gonna be.

>>>Simply put, I don't have anyone to talk to about this.

Now you do.

Lex

 

Hello, and welcome to EC! I hope you'll enjoy your time here and that it will help you come to terms with things

First of all, I'm struck by how your post reads like it could have been written by me a little over a year ago. At that time I felt genuinely stuck, for much the same reasons you cite. Good news is that I got over it, and judging from the clear view you have on your own position, I'm pretty sure that you'll manage to work through it as well!

So, some thoughts:

I don't think it's surprising that this is coming up just now. It's easy pushing sexuality aside when you're having school and growing up to deal with. And it's surprisingly easy to keep believing that if you ignore it long enough, you'll wake up straight one day. But then, once you're in a good place in life, you just start looking for the next project to take on, and finding a partner comes to the foreground. Looking back, I do feel that for me, it was inevitable that as soon as I got into the routine of living alone and having a job, the day eventually came when I said: "Look, Filip, you're 25 and you're not going to suddenly turn straight anymore!"

Now, I think that I'd advise coming out first, and finding a boyfriend later. As much as finding love seems fulfilling, falling in love is something that really benefits from having a support network. Dealing with the stress of not being out, and also with building up a relationship (including such stages of: "does he like me back?", "Why is he doing that?", and "when to tell him I like him?" among other things), can be too much. First relationshups unfortunately have the tendency to be riddled with beginner's mistakes, which are hard to deal with if you're on your own. Having a good friend who's in the know, and who you can bounce ideas back and forth with is invaluable.

The good thing about coming out is that it doesn't need to be all or nothing, though! Your sister is giving the telltale signs of suspecting and/or not really caring about whether you're gay or straight, so she would seem like the obvious candidate. And if you come out to her, she might be able to keep it a secret for now (though it migth be mpean to ask her to do so indefinitely), while you're working on who to come out next.
In my case, while I was really hesitant at first, I must say that coming out to my brother helped me immensely as a stepping stone to coming out to more people and dealing with other stuff that came up. Parents generally take longer, as they have more hopes and dreams, but they usually come around quickly enough, even if the initial weeks and months might be a tad awkward.

And obviously, while we can't be there to give a conforting hug in person, EC is a nice place to talk to people, if you don't feel like coming out immediately. If you see people here you feel are likeable, never hesitate to post on their walls. If you want to contact a staff member, just send them a PM, or if there's something bothering you, then make a thread about it!

As the others said, it's pretty unlikely that being OK with being gay (and coming out with it) will change your lifestyle. Before I came out, I did sports, hung around with my friends in (straight) bars, enjoyed reading books and watching movies, and was clueless about fashion and music. After I came out... I continued doing the same things unchanged! At most my friends stopped trying to set me up with girls (unfortunately they so far never started trying to set me up with guys )
And if your dream was being married with two kids, and driving your car to an interesting job... then you don't have to give that up at all! Some minor alterations might be in order, but at the core, this is a dream that more and more gay people live every day.

I hope this helped a bit. Don't hesitate to keep reading and posting! Even just startig to admit you're gay is a big step!

 

For me, the answer about when to tell someone is perfectly simple: when you start wondering when to tell someone.

Okay, that statement is recursive, and might read a bit deliberately vague. But at it's core, that's how it worked for me. I just shifted from abject fear at coming out (and even denying to myself that I was not going to suddenly hear heavenly choruses and turn straight) to the idea that I was, indeed, gay, and that I needed to come out to people.

From your first post, I have the impression that you're pretty sure you're gay by now, and more or less over the realisation that it isn't going to change, and that you need to move forward with your life. Which, again, points to the fact that this is the moment to start coming out.

Okay, you might not totally feel comfortable about who you are. But, to be honest, not a lot of people do. I certainly didn't feel comfortable with being gay when I first came out. What I felt at the time wasn't comfort, but just resignation to what I considered then to be an unfortunate accident of life. I only started really accepting myself after I found out other people accepted me, and didn't care about who I was attracted to. It's a bit of a catch-22, in that in order to be confident to show your vlnerable side, you first need to show your vulnerable side to people, but that's how it works a lot of the time.

And I'm pretty sure you do know all of the answers. They'll ask you whether you're sure, when you started realising you were gay, how you know you're gay, whether you have a boyfriend, and who you want to know or don't want to know. Some of them are simple questions of fact, and others might need more involved answers, but you've probably went through all of them already for yourself.

As for a gay support group, well, we're one, of course (even if it's just a bunch of screennames you see behind a computer). So that's already some support you can draw on. It would, of course, never hurt to check online whether there are other groups available in the vicinity.

One other thing that helped for me to make sure I was ready was writing a letter. Not that you need to send it, but it helps to talk to an imaginary person, writing down everything you want to tell them and already anticipating their questions. even if you never use it, it can be a source of strength. And if you feel unsure about it, it's easy to post it online, and as others for opinions or suggestions about what you want to mention while coming out.


Don't let the above push you, though! This isn't meant as an order: "come out NOW!!" :icon_wink
To me, it seems like you're ready to take the step. But you've been dealing with this for years, and a couple of days, weeks or even months aren't going to hurt. so if you already feel better after one post, you might just want to see what sticking around a bit longer can do.

 

>>>How do you know when to tell the first person?
Some posted that you need to know the answers to the questions you should expect... Some posted that you need to feel comfortable about who you are before you do...
And some posted that you need to have a gay support group to provide advice...
I don't know that I have accomplished either of teh first two things; and I certainly don't have the last.

Uh, you do have the last. Hint - you posted there within the last hour.

Actually, I don't think you need to have any of the three qualifications met. Filip has the right idea. You're ready to come out when your fear of doing so is finally outweighed by your desire to do so. That may mean your desire to actually start dating, or your desire to "move on" from this point of uncertainty, or whatever else it is. And I'd say the fact that you're contemplating it means you're about at that point. If the fear is too great, you simply don't even consider it. The fact that you're thinking about it means the balance is shifting. And frankly, I think that's all to the good.

Honestly, "coming out" is simply something to get beyond. The technique doesn't matter so much as the sheer fact of doing it. It doesn't matter if you tear down the closet door in a blare of trumpets, or sneak out while nobody's looking. Because either way, you're now on the other side of it, and you can actually continue on with your life. So don't get too hung up on the "how". Once you're ready, you can just do it, and be done with it.

Lex

 

I think the major idea I needed to be crystal clear on with myself before coming out was that I liked men. Not even considering anything else. Plain and simple, I like men. All of the other details certainly had weight, but it was this alone that ended up defining what "gay" meant for me. That has always served as the basis for my answers to any questions anyone has asked when coming out.

It sounds like you know some things for sure, as you've come here to post and responded positively, so whatever those things are could be your...rock? lol

Feeling comfortable is definitely something that comes with time - and I agree with Filip that's it's a catch-22. I remember always wanting to just be at ease with it all, but coming out was the obstacle I needed to overcome in order to be at ease.

I knew I was ready when I was going nuts dodging everything :lol:

 

First of all: don’t worry about not knowing where this goes. No one entirely knows where his/her life is going.
The important thing here is probably realising that it is going to better places than it would had you decided to keep trying to be straight

I don’t think you’re being naïve or too cautious here. It’s pretty normal to test the waters before you tell big things, and see how confident you are at telling private stuff.
When I came out to my brother, we did just inch ever closer to the situation at first, and both ended up telling minor secrets to each other (including his reveal that he had a girlfriend for some time already, but just never dared tell me for some odd reason :lol

At the same time, I think you might be underestimating her, yes. If you’re reasonably close, she will probably see that this is way more significant than “Fintan told me he ate the last cookie out of the cookie jar”, and that it is not something to be told on.
Like I said above, you might also want to make it clear that you really are planning to come out to others, and that you feel it’s important to do it yourself. Secrets are easier to keep if there's light at the end of the tunnel. That way, she’ll know that she isn’t expected to keep this inside forever.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, though. Assume she'll tell her husband. Can he keep a secret? If so you might want to just make sure you get to talk to him and impress the need to keep this on limited circulation for now.
Worst case scenario: she tells your mom. What will she do? run straight to you? If so, that might not be all that bad (even if you pictured it differently). Then you can talk to her about it. and she might be willing to keep it a secret for now. If you really fear this getting out of hand, it can help to set a really strict date for telling your mom, and tell your sister: "I'm telling you know, and I'm telling mom within the next two weeks. So I really hope you could keep it a secret until I told it myself". Obviously, that does set some stress on yourself, though.

As for the discussion: I think it's a good sign. Though people faced with unexpected coming-outs might react oddly at first, this shows a good fundamental attitude. even if you're not coming out to them just yet, this shows potential.

Anyway, glad to hear you already feel a bit happier about things going forward. It does get downhill from here.