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Are there any fellow Christians on here?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Hunter8, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Hunter8

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    Hey, I was just wondering if there were any other Christians on here besides myself. I have same-sex attractions, but I feel the best way to live according to my faith is to deny them and take up my cross so to speak. Are there any other believers on here who can sympathize with this position? If so, I would love to hear from you. Or maybe there are Christians on here who do not think a homosexual lifestyle and Christianity are incompatible. While we may differ theologically on that point, I would also welcome any feedback as well.

    Let me just add as a very genuine disclaimer here that I am not trying to cause conflict here. If you have a different viewpoint than I do on this matter, that is perfectly acceptable to me. I promise no judgment or holier than thou attitudes. I just genuinely would like to see if there are other members of my faith on here that can relate to where I'm coming from.
     
  2. PatrickUK

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    Yes, I am a Christian, but I don't approach the Christian faith from the same perspective as you. I don't think the "homosexual lifestyle" is incompatible with Christianity and I'll be happy to talk to you about that privately, if you so wish, rather than escalating a debate in this thread... and when I say talk, I really do mean that, rather than argue or cajole. :slight_smile: Ultimately, I'm happy for people to respectfully disagree.
     
  3. Secrets5

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    Hello,

    I read that everything in Levictus came about only because Eve ate the fruit and was banished from Eden. When Jesus died on the cross for us, everything in Levictus stopped being law.

    May I ask you? Have you ever eaten pork, gotten a tattoo, sworn, eating seafood, ''worshiped'' a celebrity? Those things, amoungst 76 others, are banned in Levictus.

    If you personally don't want to do anything with the same-sex, then you don't have to. Nobody can force you. But, what I would ask you, is not to condemn others for doing so.

    Also, I think if God says something you don't agree with, you don't have to go along with it. He's not there to be blindly followed, like with anybody else, assess what they're saying and make a decision. I mean, there are still things [such as having relationships with an animal] that are banned today, so society has since assessed God's word to see what they believe is right and wrong.

    The first words [at age 9] I heard about God and same-sex relations was "God loves it when two people, any two people, come together to share their love" talking about Carol and Susan in FRIENDS, so I've never knew the position of God being against gay people until RS GCSE when I was 16. [so I can't see your position, but I'll listen to it if your willing to talk]


    Just what I think.
     
  4. Secrets5

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    Hello,

    I read that everything in Levictus came about only because Eve ate the fruit and was banished from Eden. When Jesus died on the cross for us, everything in Levictus stopped being law.

    May I ask you? Have you ever eaten pork, gotten a tattoo, sworn, eating seafood, ''worshiped'' a celebrity? Those things, amoungst 76 others, are banned in Levictus.

    If you personally don't want to do anything with the same-sex, then you don't have to. Nobody can force you. But, what I would ask you, is not to condemn others for doing so.

    Also, I think if God says something you don't agree with, you don't have to go along with it. He's not there to be blindly followed, like with anybody else, assess what they're saying and make a decision. I mean, there are still things [such as having relationships with an animal] that are banned today, so society has since assessed God's word to see what they believe is right and wrong.

    The first words [at age 9] I heard about God and same-sex relations was "God loves it when two people, any two people, come together to share their love" talking about Carol and Susan in FRIENDS, so I've never knew the position of God being against gay people until RS GCSE when I was 16. [so I can't see your position, but I'll listen to it if your willing to talk]


    Just what I think.
     
  5. Hunter8

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    I appreciate your openness and kindness, Patrick. If you feel led to private message me concerning what you believe, I of course would gladly welcome it. I am totally fine with talking on this thread here too though. I understand not wanting to stir up an inflammatory debate, and that is not my intention either. However, I do see some value in several distinct voices contributing to an engaging discussion on a matter that no doubt greatly affects many people of faith and the gay community alike. So I would love to speak to your privately if that is what God is leading you to do, and I am very touched by your concern and willingness to do so. But I'm also likewise interested in continuing an open discussion on here as well.
     
  6. PatrickUK

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    I think the threadstarter made it clear that he is not here to do that.
     
  7. NoXsOrOs

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    Yes, we are here. I saw religion as the ultimate love, and thus homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality, etc (Just off the top of my head)as a lesser form of love.
    Love plus love, is good in my book.
     
  8. Hunter8

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    Secrets5, I agree with you pretty much concerning the Levitical laws. They were temporary laws that were necessary for a particular period of Israel's history. The laws were for the most part intended to keep the fledgling community separated from the pagan influences of their surrounding nations. These very strict laws were established to keep the ever-rebellious Israelites from becoming assimilated into the sinful Canaanite nations around them and therefore undoing their God-appointed destiny. So, yes, when Jesus came and ushers in the New Testament era, those old Levitical laws fall away. However, my issue is that the prohibition against homosexual acts is repeated other times in the New Testament writings. I can comfortably distance myself from some of the Old Testament edicts, but I cannot so easily shake off the New Testament passages.

    Secrets5, you asked me at one point to not condemn others for satisfying their same-sex attractions. If you look over at all that I've posted on here so far, I have never done such a thing. Nor will I.

    You then spoke about how we as society can kind of take or leave God's "advice" based as we go along. As a Christian, I have to admit that I think such an ideology will result in a very slippery slope. If we don't like something in the Bible, we just disregard it and decide what is right for ourselves. In that case, why need a God at all? If you think human beings can make all the right choices themselves, you are totally entitled to that opinion. But a core tenet of my Christian beliefs is that we are to seek FIRST the Kingdom of God, and then ALL THESE THINGS will be added unto us. I believe there is intrinsic and indispensable value in following God's advice because He both wants and knows what is best for us. Even (and especially) better than we do.

    As for the Friends reference, I have to say that is a great show, isn't it? Hilarious! I'm a big fan! :slight_smile:
     
    #8 Hunter8, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  9. PerdHapley

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    I don't think the two are incompatible at all! I'm not very religious any more for reasons unrelated to my sexuality, but up until recently the conflict between homosexuality and Catholicism was a big problem for me. When I was 11 I was sure I was going to go to hell for my thoughts, but over time I've come to the conclusion that the Bible should be put into the context of the age and era in which it was written, and if one were to consider it a sin, then it's no more of a sin than having sex outside of marriage. Sinful, but not any worse than others...

    Just my opinion haha. I've had a long time to mull this over. It's an interesting dicussion
     
  10. Hunter8

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    PerdHapley,

    You are sadly correct that many sincere believers in Christ can fall into the snare of elevating when sin above another. That is a patently unsound way of doing things for a true believer in Jesus.
     
  11. Multiverse

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    I will not tell you what you have to believe, but rather, I will give you an advice.

    Look at the evidence from both sides, that means, read the books which are for the idea that Bible and homosexuality are compatible, and read the books which are against that. Go on the websites/forums which are pro-that idea, and go on the websites/forums which are against that idea. After you do that, you will end up with 3 major views:

    1. The bible is not against homosexuality
    2. The bible is against homosexuality, but it's not a big deal, it's just one of the sins.
    3. The bible is against homosexuality, and people who practice a homosexual lifestyle will go to hell.

    After that, you don't decide to take a view which you like the most, but rather, you check the facts. For example, 1. and 3. view will claim different things on history. One side will say that A thing happened in history, and the other side will say that B thing happened in history. Then you start to read a literature on this topic, or go to university in the history department and ask few professors what really happened in history. Do that for all claims which one and the other side are making. Then you will find that either one side is lying about history (and other things) or that other side is lying.

    Then ask yourself logical questions, try to disprove both hypothesis. For example, ask yourself: If God is really against homosexuality, why would he make me gay? God makes no mistakes, therefore God is not against homosexuality.

    Or the question: If God is really not against homosexuality, why would he in the ancient book which he wrote/inspired say that he is, and then wait x xxx years until I was born to tell me that after all, he is in fact not against homosexuality?

    Try to look for the right answer, and in the end, take a position which makes the most sense to you. One thing you need to always keep in mind is next: When you want to believe something, you should always be very sceptical when you are evaluating evidences/arguments because otherwise, you will be deceived by wishful thinking.

    And the most important thing of all. Always, always be ready to change your opinion on everything.
     
    #11 Multiverse, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  12. QueerTransEnby

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    I am bi, Christian, and I don't see any conflict. I believe(my own personal beliefs) that God wants us to live a monogamous life. It's not my job to force my values on others.

    However, what I can unequivocally is that Jesus never says anything against same sex relationships. I highly recommend that you check out the Gay Christian Network(google it).

    The long and the short of it is that we cannot change our orientation. I cannot change that I am attracted to men and women. If Jesus created man and nature in his image, then we must acknowledge the fact that God is okay with same sex relationships. Because after all, man animals engage in same sex acts.

    And greetings to you from Macomb County by the way....
     
  13. Hunter8

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    Multiverse, I appreciate the time you invested in crafting that very comprehensive post. You offered some very sage advice that I certainly take to heart. Honestly, my position on this matter is one that I have reached after a lot of painstaking research. I'm of course always willing to consider new possibilities, but I think I know where I must stand regarding my homosexual feelings. You listed three possibilities that could be gleaned by studying the subject. 1) It's not a sin. 2) It's a sin, but not a big deal, because it's like any other sin. 3) It's a major sin and people who live an unrepentant gay lifestyle are going to Hell.

    My research has led me to a fourth possibility though. I believe the Bible is clear that it is a sin, and all sin is very serious in God's eyes. However, I do not necessarily believe that practicing gay Christians are automatically consigned to Hell. There's a War between Guilt and Grace in every believer's life, but I believe Scripture teaches that Grace wins out ultimately. No Christian ever dies without some unconquered sin still left in their lives. Where we fall short though, the Grace of Christ fills in those gaps. That being said, I don't believe I can just take sin lightly and keep doing whatever I want knowing that I'm entitled to forgiveness. I believe a sincere follower of Christ must try and do his or her best to avoid what he or she firmly believes is sin. This should be done for two reasons. 1) Trust that a sovereign God is wise enough to know what is best for us. And 2) Out of gratitude for Christ did for us undeserving sinners on the cross. So that's where I'm personally at right now in my faith walk. Thank you for sharing your kind words, Multiverse.

    Biguy, thanks you for your insight as well. I will have to pay a visit to GCN at some point. It sounds like an interesting place to be sure. I understand that Jesus Himself never commented on homosexuality (and oh how I wish He would have), but my concern revolves around the references to it written by Paul in the New Testament. If all scripture is Spirit-breathed and inspired by divine revelation, then it's not only the words of Jesus Himself that matter. The whole book must be examined. But thank you again for your input. Much to think about for sure!
     
    #13 Hunter8, Jun 26, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  14. entopen

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    I think this video may apply here, though it is pretty long.

    [YOUTUBE]ezQjNJUSraY[/YOUTUBE]
     
  15. PatrickUK

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    The only other comments and open questions I wish to add to this thread are these:

    Do all Christians actually believe the Bible to be infallible, inerrant and unchanging; the literal word of God? Some might, but is it any way reasonable to assume that all Christians take the same view?

    Is a literal understanding of the Bible really the only way to go? Have we (the entire Christian community) always approached the Bible in such a narrow way?

    If the answer to any of these questions is no (and that is the answer) where does that leave this interminable debate about the relationship between homosexuality and Christianity?

    If we broaden our minds and resist the temptation to assume for others and pigeon hole God, we might begin to move beyond this tense stand off of ideas and counter arguments that are so damaging to many communities. That's got to be an honourable, Christian response that we can all sign up to.

    Think about it! :slight_smile:
     
  16. NoXsOrOs

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    Here I'll add something that should have been added in my fantasi .. I mean reality.

    *Drops mic*
    "Think about it" ...
    *Smiles*
    *Slowly turns*..
     
  17. CJliving

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    I shy away from the word Christian, but I do believe in God and Christ. The Bible? Not so much. It's a good referrence text, but I certainly don't think it's infalliable or protected against bias. Everything in the Bible should be taken with a great deal of research, creative thinking, and a grain of salt.
     
  18. Hunter8

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    You're right, Patrick. Christians often times believe many different things when it comes to the Bible. I'm not a fan of Christians decrying the faith of other believers merely because they do not believe exactly like they do. There are undoubtedly certain sects of Christian faith that do not believe it to be sin. As a Christian who honestly disagrees with that position, I do not judge or condemn my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ for believing that. I believe the grace of Christ crucified and risen again covers both sets of believers who genuinely disagree on the matter.

    I also understand that some Christians do not place as much value on scripture as others. Once again, I don't judge that, but I must admit that I cannot adopt that mindset in my own walk. I believe all Scripture is God-breathed and under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So I believe its value in a believer's life is of monumental importance in conforming our hearts to beat like Christ's. Certainly, some passages are challenging and require being greatly examined and mulled over. But I sincerely believe that everything in the Bible is in there for a reason. That's respectively my position as a believer. As I said, I accept that there are other views. Ultimately, we as Christians must always do what we genuinely feel is right.
     
  19. Multiverse

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    I have 3 questions for you. One of them is related to this topic and 2 of them are related to other topics. As far as I can see from this post of yours, you admit that if a person takes the whole Bible as a word of God, then the Bible is against homosexuality. Good.
    In that case, If you don't want to believe that the Biblical God is against homosexuality you have to say that a part of the Bible is the word of God, and that is what you are saying.

    Now, I'm interested, how do you decide what part is the word of God, and how do you decide which part is not the word of God? For example, in the NT where is homosexuality condemned, in the very next words, it is also condemned abuse of children (and similar things). Because of that you cannot say something like "Only NT is the word of God, while OT isn't" you literally have to say that in the same sentences some words are from God, while others aren't. How do you decide that? And, what else do you deny that the Bible is against (when it speaks about morality)? Do you deny that the Bible is against adultery, murder, abuse of children, greed (etc.), or do you deny only that the Bible is against homosexuality?

    The second question was, yesterday a member of the forum told to me that I'm breaking the rules of the forum, because I'm trying to change people's mind. He said that it is forbidden to try to change people's mind (or something of that sort). Is that true?

    And third question is... It could be a coicindence, but I couldn't help notice that every time when I ask a person in the thread a question: "Would you ever change your mind" the thread get's locked or deleted. For example: Yesterday I said in the thread that God is not required for the origin of the universe, and asked a person who believes in God would he ever change his mind about the existence of God and then puff. The thread got deleted. Is that a coincidence or no?

    At least as far as the New Testament is concerned, the Bible(NT) is pretty much unchanging (or even completely unchanging). The idea that the Bible is somehow dramatically changed, and that New Testament has been incredible corrupted is just wrong. Don't use this argument for homosexuality and the Bible. NT is the best reliably reconstruction which we have of any ancient text, we have reconstructed NT to +99% of accuracy. I will repeat this once again, we are more certain about what originial NT text said than we are certain about original of any other ancient text.
     
  20. IamCasey

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    I live where the Southern Baptist preachers either preach hell, fire and damnation and try to make you fear God, or they preach he is a loving caring God. I choose to think he is loving and caring!