If There Is A God, Why do Such Bad Things Happen

I struggled with faith for quite a while in my late teens and early twenties. In the end I came to the conclusion that there is no divine plan, and when events happen it's merely the result of coincidence and circumstances.

While it might not provide much comfort during times like this one with your friend's daughter, on the same note it should let you know how important the hear and now is. We can't rely on some divine force to guide us, we should take responsibility for our own actions, and make our own immortality through the positive impact we have on partners, friends, family and the world in general.

 

I have my own problems with the idea of God, but this has never been one of them. If we make the assumption that God exists, and we make the assumption that he is benevolent and wants what is best for everyone, then these frightening things you mention can easily be accepted. Granted both of the qualifications I made are rather big and perhaps difficult to accept, the fact is that many people do accept them to be true. If they are true, then it doesn't really matter how, when, why, or where we die because God has our ultimate well being in mind. If I believe that God wants what is best for me and then I die tomorrow, then it is ok because it can be safely assumed that I am better off leaving this world and entering the afterlife than I would be if I were to continue living.

Like I said though, I have other difficulties with the idea of God, so whatever.

 

here's a little parable that jesus told that will probably answer your question:

There once was a farmer, a good farmer. He worked all day and all night to plow and sow the seeds with his farm hands, but one night one of his rival farmers snuck in and planted weeds through the crop in the middle of the night, as the crop began to grow the farm hands noticed that the crop was strewn with weeds, the went to the farmer and told him this and suggested to burn the field. The farmer said "no I don't want to lose one single grain of corn let it grow" so they left it to grow, and there was soon more weeds than corn, then the farm handsharvested the crop, instead of being careless, they went to each individual piece of corn and got every single drop of corn, then with that done, they turned round and burned all of the weeds.

Kind of a weird story but it gets the point across, we are the bits of corn and god does not want to lose a single one of us, so instead of just getting rid of us when he could see the weeds growing (sin) he has to let it grow and has to let the bad things in life happen like cancer or natural disasters, because if he tried to stop them he would inevitably lose one of us, or there is a chance he could and he loves us just too much to run even the slightest of tiniest chance, he won't. Additianly there is the story (I can't remember what it is called exactly) but basically the persian king had just defeated the isreakites, and he decided to train all of the clever isrealites, also to celebrate his victory he built a massive statue of himself, and whenever it was unveiled all of the people in his empire had to bow or be put to death in a pit of burning oil, but three isrealites (I can't remember their names) refused to bow so the king had them put to death but, when the three men where thrown into the fire they went without crying or pleas for their life, they went willingly, but the three men where unharmed, and a mysterious fourth man appeared in the fire, the three men began walking through the fire and having a conversation with this fourth man.

The moral of that story is that being a christian, or even believing in god isn't an easy path to follow and god won't get you out of hard situations, in fact he'll put you in the middle of them, to follow jesus is to walk into the furnace. Basically I'm not trying to convert you I'm just answering your question, don't lose hope my friend where there is bad there is good, and there is a whole lot more good than bad.

 

I don't want to get into a debate on the merits or difficulty of following a religious path versus being your own person so I'm just going to edit this post away.

 

This ^^^

 

you can't comprehend joy if you have never suffered. life is a broad expanse of varied experinces, regardless of if there is a god or not. in the end, the horrible things help us grow, and they happen because that is the nature of the world and humanity.

bad things happening doesnt disprove a supreme being...

 

Doesn't exactly prove a supreme being's existence either.

 

Well, there is a reason they call it 'faith'...

 

All religions attempt to answer this question, as it's one of the most personal arguments against the existence of God. It's known generally as the problem of evil and the question is why suffering exists when God is apparently omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent. I'm irreligious so my answer to this is totally unbiased either by religion or atheism. I don't support a lot of the arguments against the problem of evil.

I think that this takes the biscuit as far as arguments against God go. Darwin himself, with all his theories that are quoted constantly by strong atheists, only turned away from religion after the death of his daughter. It sucks that some people get it great while others get their life cut short or have to live with horrible illness. Especially when there's meant to be some kind of being who cares and has control out there. The branch of theological philosophy dedicated to answering why this is so is known as Theodicy. And there are so many obscure branches and weird arguments from this question, digressing into questions about the definitions of God and evil.

The most common argument in Christian thought is that for free will. Basically it says that God gives humans free will and that evil comes from free will of humans. Of course this brings up the question of poverty and natural disasters and people generally being born in unfair circumstances. Some of the more radical religious people (especially in Islam as far as I've read) say that these disasters are a result of evil ways and human sin. That's kind of linked to Karma and past lives as well—be a bitch in one life and get punished in the next. In my opinion it's a bit of a rubbish argument seeing as it's the most quoted one, but it carries the message of 'behave or burn!' that certain religious groups like to push onto people.

The arguments I favor over others are the 'evil vs. good' ones. Idk where it was now, but I was reading one of the classic Chinese religious texts (a translation), and it said something along the lines of evil has to exist with good just as tall has to exist with small. This is the most convincing to me.
Just imagine that you're born into the traditional archetype of Heaven (angels, everything is awesome, yay happiness ^_^), a life in an American city on Earth, and the traditional Hell (fire and brimtone mwahaha).
What would be good in Hell? Well seeing as it's supposedly the ultimate evil place, something good would be some french fries from a fast food chain.
What would french fries be like in an American city? Something very mediocre and everyday.
What would french fries be in Heaven? Well, when you're used to the ultimate of divine food, they'd be absolutely horrific.
So the point is that you need evil and injustice in the world in order for the whole concept good and justice to exist at all. If I was a religious person and something really bad happened then that would be my reasoning

And then there's what's known as the apophatic way. Basically says that we can't know God at all. That God is so intense and massive that to understand him is utterly incomprehensible. Christians don't tend to like this as much as Muslims, because the christian God tends to be painted in a bit of a more anthropomorphic light in general (not in all denominations though). You've probably heard the phrase God works in mysterious ways~. That there is evil and it seems unfair now but we don't know what (another phrase they use a lot) God's divine plan is. A bit of a cop out? Yes. But it's fair enough seeing as the definition of God in most religions is seemingly something totally out of human concepts of time and space and OMG-worthy.

Okay I could actually go on for hours because there are a billion more things to be said about this, but that's the general idea. There are books written on this and in response to other arguments against the existence of God, but unfortunately most texts on religion are pretty biased.
Anyway, I don't want to make this an essay even though it's probably too late now. I'm sorry about your friend's daughter and I really hope she can get through this and come out stronger at the other end.

 

I agree with this. I think I really grew more character as a result of having major depression during my teenage years and going through other hardships. I also matured more than some people my age, and as a result of of the negative things I've gone through, some obstacles I come across in my life now are a walk in the park so to speak. It makes me appreciate the little things in life as well.

I'm not saying I think you should get over this now. Obviously, it's a tragic occurance. And I really sympathisize with you. I remember when I thought my mother was going to die in the hospital (luckily her condition was something less than the doctor initially thought it was), I was devastated.

And at the young age of 18, that's really harsh. However, if she's lived a good life up until now, she should continue to do so while she can. And fight. Tell her to never give up fighting... (*hug*)

 

Faith is not a substitute for genuine evidence, and is often used as an excuse to be lazy and avoid actually tackling the tough questions in life yourself.

 

Correct. It's like when we had a debate in my philosophy class people who believed would often say, "God works in mysterious ways," because they had no other points to discuss. Like Ben said though, most major religions have spent centuries trying to work out plausible answers to these types of things that allow their faiths to be valid in spite of all the bad things in the world. Some people accept the explanations. I, for one, do not and cases like the original poster said are prime examples of why I don't believe in any religion or God as Judeo-Christian faiths present him. Also, as to the point that you can't know joy without suffering that's all fine and good, but then why isn't the suffering handed out equally to everyone? You want to say we can't know joy without suffering fine, but there are some people who never get to know joy period because all they have is suffering.

 

I just want it to be known that I'm intentionally abstaining from this discussion... :eusa_sile

 

I don't believe in the benevolent, loving God Christianity promotes. No offense to Christians, but the stories of The Fall of Lucifer, Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel don't make sense. They have to be the poorest reasons for the existence of evil and sin.

(You can skip this next part if it makes you uncomfortable, I just need to speak my mind for a minute)

Didn't God know Lucifer would try to overthrow Him? Why would He let him turn into Satan and gain so much power in Hell? Did Lucifer create Hell? Was it spontaneously created when he turned into Satan? Did God create Hell before Lucifer even fell since He created everything in the universe? How did the Tree of Knowledge get into the Garden of Eden? Why would God let Satan plant it there, coax Eve into eating from it, and convince Adam to do the same? Did God make some deal with Satan to see if they could pass 'the ultimate test'? Why did God become snobbish when it came to Cain's offerings when He knew it'd end in Abel's death (what was so bad about produce from the farm you worked hard for anyway?) Even if this was all a test, God knew that each and every one of them would fail and fail miserably. It's like leaving a gigantic jar of candy in the room of your curious, candy loving 5-year-old, telling her not to eat from it, then getting angry when she does. You wish that she won't be tempted but you know for certain that she will steal a piece. He cannot get mad because they're HIS creations. A boss is responsible for lazy and bad employees no matter the situation, so the same applies to a higher power. Free will means nothing if the higher power knows you're going to fail. The only way free will could apply to these situations is if God wasn't certain of the outcomes. Since He was and some believe that He has a plan for everyone, then each person was destined for failure, no matter how much hoping and wishing He did.

I see him/her/it/they like a scientist and everything in the universe is his/her/its/their test subjects. To me, that explains why life isn't fair, why evil things happen to good people and good things happen to evil people, why babies and children die, why some people have spectacular or miserable lives, why we have a natural want for happiness, why we look and act so differently, why some things happen by chance or at complete random. Natural disasters, diseases, war, death negative human emotions like hate, greed, and jealousy are all experiments he/she/it/they create to see how we respond to them. He/She/It/They neither loves nor hate us, we're all just his test subjects going through the confusing maze we call life. However, I do believe in the afterlife and the Seven Deadly Sins. I feel that this world isn't the end and we all commit some of the seven sins frequently even if we aren't Catholic.

I hope no one thinks I'm crazy or anything. LOL

 

I actually think from a philosophical standpoint, etoile has made a better statement towards the question of the existance or nonexistane of a supreme being than simply the 'problem of evil' stance.

If god is infallable and omnipresent, then why did they create a angels that would betray them?

I am tempted to break out my philosphey of religions text books, as they argue it up one side, and down the other, and leave it up to each to decide their own stance.

About the only arguement that seemed to have any reasoned credibility when put up to the notion of test and logic was the bet.

one man says there is a god... another says there isnt. they decide to bet.

If there isent a god, but you believe in one, in the end, it doesnt matter, because there was never anything to lose. you die, you cease to exist in any compacity, so you cant feel ashamd that you were wrong.

If there is a god, and you bet that there is no god, you lose, because you were wrong.

therefore, in the end, the safest bet is to believe in god, because if there is a god, you win, and if there is no god, you had nothing to lose in the first place.


... not saying that this will instill a belief in god, but honestly, that is about as close to a reasoned arguement on belief itself as I think it is possible to find.

of course that speaks nothing to the existance of god itself, or lack thereof.

 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God.
~Epicurus

 

Generally, I belive in a watchmaker God. That means that I believe God exists, but does not interfere with humanity. Things like cancer happen because biological systems are imperfect.

There needs to be the possibility for error in DNA replication in order for evolution to occur. It is just unfortunate that sometimes (ie, most of the time) genetic mutations are deleterious and cause bad things to happen.

Disease has nothing to do with God. They are two separate things/discussions.

Why do other bad things happen? Because we have free will and some people choose to make bad decisions.

As for heaven/hell. One of my religion teachers told us there's no reason to believe Hell even exists. Is there anything that any human being could do that is SO bad that s/he deserves to be punished for an ETERNITY? That also calls into the question of heaven, of course..But why must we have both? Why can't heaven exist without hell? (Or could hell exist without heaven? There's a tragic thought!)

 

If you don't mind, can I ask a few questions?

Why do genetic errors have to exist? Why aren't diseases connected to God? He created everything, right down to the smallest bacteria and virus. Any man-made disease He oversaw and approved or did nothing to stop. He's omnipotent and omniscient, so He knows what's going on, what went on, and what will go on in every single human, animal, and plant's life. Is free will truly free will if God already knows what will take place, who it'll take place with, where it'll take place, why it'll take place, and how it'll take place? If we do have free will, then it certainly is a flawed system. But God can't make a mistake, for He is all-powerful, so he must have purposely made free will able to be corrupted and used for malevolent purposes for whatever reasons.

Why "must" God do certain things? Why "must" evil exists for good and vice versa? Why "must" we experience suffering and sorrow to experience true joy? God created everything, EVERY single rule and experience life throws at us. He had the ability to do whatever He wanted, to create the universe and us in whatever image He desired. He could have made the Sun rotate around each planet every 5,000 years, us to have 9 eyes and feel nothing but happiness, be able to throw up unicorns and fart cotton candy LOL. If God "had" to do this or if this "had" to be like that, then God must have followed a set of rules of some sort. This means that there'd have to be someone/something higher than God or that there are many gods equal to Him. Since Christians are monotheistic, this can't be possible. This must mean He had 100% control over everything that happened in the past, present, and future.

 

I agree with you that that logic is totally flawed. But that's not what most denominations say. They say that those are all stories carrying messages, and the idea of taking them literally is a pretty new practice in Christianity, as is the whole God as a man on a cloud thing.

There are attempted answers to pretty much every question surrounding the problem of evil and there are counter-arguments against those. I put the three main ones in my last post, but that was probably too long. But I guess that's the point—I barely touched the surface of these questions and you could write a thick book on this subject without actually getting anywhere if you have no religious bias. People have been questioning and arguing for hundreds of years why God can apparently be a bit of a bitch. It's an endless chain which has been covered thousands of times and never been resolved—probably because people are so stubborn when it comes to their religion.