The 'F' word.

[Micah]

No, I'm not talking about the the word 'fuck' I'm talking about the word 'fag'. I'm curious as to how you respond to it. Do you consider the word to be derogative, and get offended if someone referes to you as a fag? Or maybe you take it as a complement of sorts? I know some says find it quite offensive. Myself? Well I'm a fag What about you?

[biman]

i dont think its either really, to me its only a word.

Generally, I explain the actual meaning of the word to them. A fag is what they call a cigarette in the UK (I think), while a faggot is the term for a bundle of sticks used to burn people at the stake.

I refer to myself as a fag sometimes...it's not a huge deal to me.

[Paul_UK]

I think it depends on the context it's used in. If the single word is shouted at you then it's most likely offensive, but if it's used in a pleasant sentance by someone who is gay, gay-friendly or just a bit nieve about the terminology, then it's probably OK.

I am not keen on the word "fag" though, nor on the words "poof" or "queer" for that matter, and would prefer to be called "gay".

"Fag" is slang for "cigarette" here in the UK, and this use of the word has no collection with "faggot" as far as I know. There is also a (revolting) meat product called a "faggot" - again no connection.

Incidently, I recieved an email today (in relation to a vintage radio forum I run) from someone who managed to make the word "homo" offensive:

....I suspect some of the old hands that run this site are homo's including yourself, and if this is the case:..although legal? i would not want to be asscoiated with this site....

Paul.

[nisomer]

i have always found that word as very mean. even before i knew what it ment, and before i realized i was gay.

[hawkeye]

I would say that words really only have offense if used to rename you("hey homo!"), or when it is brought up in a negative light. Most words here can be used as a noun or an adjective, and i usualy dont like it when people use them as nouns. I am not nessecarily a gay, i am gay (or bi, whatever) I guess fag would be the exception to this rule, as you can not really be fag, you must be a fag.

[goratrix]

people speak spanish where I live. But we do have some words with the same connotations. And no, I don't care... it's just a word.

[popboy]

Being English my second language makes me quite insensitive to derogative words in English. You know, Spanish has its words too (which do affect me), so I understand the topic of this thread perfectly.
I remember the first time I heard the word was on a show from the early nineties "Kids in the Hall". One time one of the actor introduces himself "Hi, I'm Scott Thompson, and yes, I'm the faggot". It didn't sound derogative at all and even the audience cheered.

For some inexplicable reason my stubborn English dictionary, 2 of every 3 times I try to look something up, opens up in the "faggot" page. I wonder if it's trying to tell me something. As my dictionary never tried to communicate anything during the last decade I should assume this is purely coincidental. Ups, here it comes again.
Yep, the word is marked as derogative (in US, fagot or fag).

[goratrix]

popboy. When they say things like maricon, puto, mozo sin bandeja, etc... do they really affect you?

You know, among my friends we call each other PUTO and MARICON specially quiet a lot... so for me it's just another appelative, like, hey you!, or hi there!... oh, well, I guess that if they actually mean it in a derogative way they would affect me as well... still, don't let them get to you... take those words, and make them your own!

Sí! soy puto! y me gusta! y para que te quede claro: sí, tengo fantasías sexuales con vos todas las noches!!!!

Anyway... just a thought...

[hawkeye]

hmm, i wonder if i said "soy puto" if anyone would catch on. i dont think i'd be able to pronounce the rest of the phrase easily.

[joeyconnick]

It's all contextual to me, although generally I don't like it when people use the various words as a noun to refer to me or single people: I'm uncomfortable with being a gay or a queer or a fag. However, I'm not as uncomfortable being a homo for some reason.

I think Margaret Cho impersonating her mother does the "the gays, they are so nice." "The gays" to me sounds bizarre, although one of my favourite organisations is Parents, Friends, and Families of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG).

Of course, I have no problem with "lesbian" as a noun, i.e. she's a lesbian. But to say "he's a gay" sounds rude. I'd love to read a linguistic study on why it seems more acceptable to use lesbian as both a noun and an adjective whereas the nominalisation of gay is somehow more problematic.

So I don't mind being gay, or even queer, but unless it's my friends calling me a fag, it kinda pisses me off.

And it's really fascinating if you start comparing and contrasting the usage of "fag" with the usage of "nigger." I mean, the N-word is the absolute best example in the world to refute someone who says, "Words are just words." Words are power.

What I do really hate, even though I realise that these days the bulk of people doing this are not even aware of what they're doing, is how "gay" is equated with "stupid" or "lame," particularly in high schools. I mean, it's fun to fool around with with my friends and breathlessly say things like, "Dude that's like, so gay!" but I can't imagine what it would be like to be closeted and have to hear people use gay that way multiple times a day. And really, if some moron says "That shirt is so gay," what on Earth is that supposed to mean? That the shirt likes to get it on with other shirts? That the shirt is gonna be good at cutting hair? That the shirt is getting more booty than the person who called it gay?

[goratrix]

society has a way of twisting words to give them new meanings and connotations... so since we live in a basically homophobic society, I'm not surprised that gay, queer, fag, etc, have bad connotations...

[popboy]

@goratrix
"mozo sin bandeja" is definitely new to me. Don't use it next time you come to BA, no one will get the idea!!! (BTW, are you planning to come? :wink: ).
Puto, maricón, "te la comés", afeminado, etc are still derogative to me, probably because I've been labelled with most of them when I was a child. And believe me, they never meant to use them as appellatives. I know the appellative use of "puto" is quite widespread now, I'm not living in a bubble :-P
"Gay" and "homosexual" (both identically used in Spanish and English) don't belong to my derogative-word group, no matter what context they are used in.
(I'm sorry I never meant to bring up a discussion over Spanish words -blame it on goratrix!!!)

[hawkeye]

hey, dont worry about bringing spanish into this, its not like degrading words are only in english. I love learning about foreign languages anyways, too bad i havent taken many (well, almost none) classes lately. I remember taking a spanish class back about 7 years ago, and i got pretty good at it, but i have forgotten it since.

[CelebrityHead]

I think it all depends on the tone of the person's voice and who is saying it
If one of my friends called me a fag, or their favourite fag or something I wouldn't take offense, but if like someone who doesn't like me said it I would definately take offense because its obvious that they're using it in a derogative sense.

Originally Posted by joeyconnick

I can't imagine what it would be like to be closeted and have to hear people use gay that way multiple times a day.

I can. I have this terribly homophobic friend and pretty much everything he doesn't like he says it's gay. I reckon I hear gay said that way like 50 times a day :icon_frow .
Especially when in music we're analysing Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and 'Somewhere' from West Side Story because queer jokes are thrown around constantly since Freddy Mercury was gay and Leonard Bernstein is bi.

Can't wait till im out, maybe they might stop. But it's hard to imagine it because it's become a habit for people to just say gay instead of stupid.

Originally Posted by CelebrityHead

I think it all depends on the tone of the person's voice and who is saying it
If one of my friends called me a fag, or their favourite fag or something I wouldn't take offense, but if like someone who doesn't like me said it I would definately take offense because its obvious that they're using it in a derogative sense.



I can. I have this terribly homophobic friend and pretty much everything he doesn't like he says it's gay. I reckon I hear gay said that way like 50 times a day :icon_frow .
Especially when in music we're analysing Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' and 'Somewhere' from West Side Story because queer jokes are thrown around constantly since Freddy Mercury was gay and Leonard Bernstein is bi.

Can't wait till im out, maybe they might stop. But it's hard to imagine it because it's become a habit for people to just say gay instead of stupid.

My schools the same way, gay, queer, fag all used very perjoratively. It doesnt bother me, but im sure others must hate it

[tinkerbell]

'Fag' is a short term for 'faggot' which is a bundle of sticks. The reason gay men (and sometimes women) are called fags is because they used to be burned at the stake using the bundle of sticks as kindling. Both 'fag' and 'faggot' terms have been hurled at me, and I do usually find the terms offensive in that circumstance. Otherwise, it's a bundle of wood or cigarette.

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

'Fag' is a short term for 'faggot' which is a bundle of sticks. The reason gay men (and sometimes women) are called fags is because they used to be burned at the stake using the bundle of sticks as kindling. Both 'fag' and 'faggot' terms have been hurled at me, and I do usually find the terms offensive in that circumstance. Otherwise, it's a bundle of wood or cigarette.

Hmm.. I knew about the first part but not about the second.. good to know

[xxAngelOnFirexx]

Before i realized i was gya (i think i may have been bi or considering it at the time) i called a friend of my mom's (not to his face) a fag. i said "Why do we have to go to some fag's comfirmation anyway!" ( just didn't feel like sitting in church for hours). afterward i felt so bad for saying it i cried. My mom told me never to use it because it is wrong and i have never since (i beleive). I think that it's a deragotory term anyhow.

[GuitarGirl1350]

It's incredibly derogatory and I will ask people not to use it in my presence.